My Fedora 8 problem: upgrading

July 28, 2010

My Fedora 8 problem is that I still have a machine running Fedora 8, which means that I need to upgrade it. Worse, this is not some disused machine sitting in the corner but my home workstation; it doesn't have much bandwidth, and I kind of want it to be up and usable as much as possible when I'm home. So I've been gloomily contemplating my upgrade options for some time.

The officially supported or semi-supported way to do this is to do the upgrade from a Fedora 13 install DVD. This will likely take many hours during which my system is unusable and, assuming it works, will then require me to download a gigabyte or two of updates and third partly packages over a relatively slow DSL link before the system is really usable again.

(I am assuming here that the Fedora 13 installer will upgrade a Fedora 8 system; it's possible that it won't touch machines that are that old.)

Now, this machine uses my full workstation partitioning scheme, with duplicate partitions for /, /usr, and /var. In theory the best way to upgrade is to make a copy of the system in these partitions, chroot into it, and do a yum upgrade. There are two problems with this, though. First, I don't know if a yum upgrade works in a chroot'd environment or if it tries to kill and restart various daemons at inopportune times and so on; I would not be surprised if this was neither tested nor recommended. Second, you can't upgrade directly from Fedora 8 to Fedora 13 this way; you have to upgrade to Fedora 10 and then again to Fedora 11 as intermediate steps. This is a lot of downloads over my slow DSL link, even if I figure out how to make yum get as many packages as possible from a local DVD or directory.

(The bandwidth of a DVD or two transported from work vastly exceeds my DSL link.)

I'm pretty sure that I can't put together a version of PreUpgrade that will go from Fedora 8 to Fedora 13 in one operation; certainly, the Fedora 8 version only offers up to Fedora 10 as an option. Using PreUpgrade might cut one step off the yum upgrade process (but might not) and would let me download all of the necessary packages and updates in advance, but it would also have my machine down for many hours again. Twice (at least).

The crazy option is to not upgrade to Fedora 13 but to use those spare partitions to install Fedora 13 from scratch. This would probably require the machine to be down (I expect that Anaconda's live DVD installs still take over the entire machine), but Fedora generally installs much faster than it upgrades. And I would get to start over without four years of accumulated random bits and pieces. The downside of this is that I would really, really want to have good backups of all of my data.

(One of the things I'm taking away from this exercise and a similar although less drastic exercise at work is that next time around, I really want all of my user data on different physical disks than the system disk(s). This would let me completely disconnect them during upgrades and reinstalls so that I don't have to count on the install or upgrade process leaving my user filesystems alone and untouched.)

Finally, at this point it's getting increasingly tempting to 'upgrade' the machine by buying a new one and installing Fedora 13 (and all of my local changes) onto the machine from scratch and copying my data over. But getting a new machine still feels kind of wasteful at this point; while my home machine will be four years old this fall, it's still perfectly good for most of what I do (although I would like more RAM and CPU power for processing digital photos, especially since I have one of the cores turned off due to reliability problems).


Comments on this page:

From 208.127.177.103 at 2010-07-28 01:04:10:

I'd go the fresh install route and restore your home directory or other custom settings afterwards.

Will be much less of a pain the ass. :)

By cks at 2010-07-28 12:52:43:

Apart from the time they take, I haven't really had any problems doing upgrades instead of reinstalls and as a result I prefer them. And if I have to restore all of my own data afterwards, a reinstall is going to be vastly slower than an upgrade.

(After any Fedora version change I spend a certain amount of time putting my customized environment back together and coping with the Fedora changes, but that wouldn't change if I got to the new version with a reinstall.)

From 69.134.205.142 at 2010-07-28 13:31:34:

It so happens I installed Fedora 13 x86_64 on my laptop last night. My cable company internet wandered between 30kBps and 100kBps (bytes, not bits) over four hours to download the 700Mbyte Live Desktop iso. I have about 10Gbyte data in /home, and backed that up to a USB drive in about 15 minutes. I burned the ISO to a CD and booted that, then double clicked the "install to hard drive" icon. The install didn't recognize my custom LVM configuration, but there wasn't anything precious there without multiple off-machine backups, so I let it get blown away. The install to disk took about 20 minutes. I spent a couple hours futzing with addons (I haven't finished); the 3a.m. "sudo yum update" took about an hour to download about 300Mbyte.

I then just about repeated the process, since the "addons" included installing a KVM environment to run a virtual machine, and I installed the virtual machine in nearly the same manner. The KVM documentation at fedoraproject.org was OK for hints, but useless for details - it really describes RHEL5 KVM, not Fedora 13. After guessing (I believe correctly) at the right collection of packages, it set up the networking wrong: the Virtual Machine Manager GUI set up the guest to expect NAT, but set up some broken mixture of NAT and bridged on the host. I can fix it from the command line, but I don't know yet how to make the fixes permanent (i.e., survive a host reboot), since the GUI botches an on-the-fly revision of iptables.

So, yeah, anything beyond the simplest install is going to involve some thrashing around for obscure configuration.

From 134.173.34.80 at 2010-07-28 19:50:58:

I'm in a similar boat with my Debian machine, which is completely up-to-date, as it's been running Debian unstable since it was installed, something like seven or eight years ago.

Even though it's completely up-to-date, it's still not especially usable. It has lots of cruft accumulated over time, and as it's running unstable various things (e.g., 3D suport on the video card) are often broken. Replacing the machine with a new one is attractive, as I could then run a development environment in a separate VLAN but have the main machine run something stable, but as I pretty much only use it for e-mail and building new versions of my packages, and I mostly do that over SSH, it's kind of hard to justify a new machine.

If I ever do get around to reinstalling the machine, I would get a new drive or two and copy all my home partition data to it/them, then I would pull those drives, bring the machine into work, wipe it, reinstall, then take it back home and reinstall the home disks. That way I end up with a fresh working install, my data is safe at home (and on separate drives), and I have all the available updates installed and ready to go. That approach might work for you, too.

-- Claire

From 76.113.53.58 at 2010-07-29 15:58:13:

Chris, it's utter madness. You are admitting yourself that your box is not only freaking ancient and is creaking at the seams but is in fact half-dead now. What excuse do you have not to buy a new one at this point?!

Also quit this UNIX madness and partition /boot+root+/home, seriously.

From 83.145.210.250 at 2010-08-04 02:39:57:

@76.113.53.58 at 2010-07-29 15:58:13:

The "UNIX madness" seems to be the recent mantra of Fedora alright. Somehow I just feel that particularly Fedora is replacing this "madness" with... I don't know, typical "Windows madness". Somehow I also feel that I am not alone with this feeling. Hopefully Linux in general does not follow.

Written on 28 July 2010.
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