Chris's Wiki :: blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertainty Commentshttps://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertainty?atomcommentsDWiki2016-03-26T02:37:16ZRecent comments in Chris's Wiki :: blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertainty.By Ben Hutchings on /blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertaintytag:CSpace:blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertainty:36dd051c31a7a422be3ba286fc64b400b691cd94Ben Hutchings<div class="wikitext"><p>Microsoft made this a requirement for the "Designed for Windows" logo when they launched Windows Vista in 2007 including the DWM compositor. Oddly enough, since then integrated GPUs have been quite capable of running a compositor, whether that's DWM or it's GNOME Shell on X or Wayland.</p>
</div>2016-03-26T02:37:16ZBy Anon on /blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertaintytag:CSpace:blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertainty:93c9fb1a872c1b82de2e4fe1750a1b07f1dcacb0Anon<div class="wikitext"><p>It's worth noting that in Fedora 23 it is possible to choose a Wayland desktop when running under VMware Fusion on a Mac Mini (which has a 2013 era integrated Intel card).</p>
<p>While the desktop itself was glitchy, the performance seemed fine so the key going forward looks to be drivers (and maturity of the desktop stack) rather than the raw power of the hardware (even with the virtualization overhead). Having said that I wasn't using 4K resolutions or huge monitors...</p>
<p>Hopefully running X under Wayland will work well and then people will be able to continue using the same desktop environments that way until they are ported.</p>
</div>2016-03-25T09:00:57ZBy James on /blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertaintytag:CSpace:blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertainty:bf3e4efae3fcc13a5a6788c231f3001f80de97d6James<div class="wikitext"><p>The embedded GPUs in Intel's latest CPUs are definitely capable of basic OpenGL tasks. The higher-end ones can be used for gaming, although they're only available in mobile chips.</p>
<p>If you want ECC though, perhaps look at Intel Xeon-D, which also has 10Gb built in to the chip. No integrated graphics though.</p>
</div>2016-03-23T16:01:19ZBy Andy B. on /blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertaintytag:CSpace:blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertainty:94706aaa492fc55330bb4aac8fdbbfa4a6b8b810Andy B.http://go.c800colon5.com/<div class="wikitext"><p>I'm of the same mind (must be why I enjoy your blog :)). I'm a long time Xmonad user, and my X usage is primarily a bunch of xterms and a browser. </p>
<p>Each time I replace my desktop machine, I look for opportunities to make it simpler; to build, configure, and to maintain. When the nouveau driver made it into debian several years ago, it felt like a win since all my graphics junk worked reasonably well, I didn't have to install any third party stuff or deal with dkms. It did mean that I needed to keep getting Nvidia cards, and they couldn't be either too old nor too new lest I find myself outside Nouveau's supported range.</p>
<p>The last time I replaced my machine, I opted for a mini-itx enclosure, and was hoping to find some cheap late-model, fanless Nvidia card for it. The board I used (one of the Asus Z97 boards, I forget which) had the right connectors for my display wired to the onboard Intel graphics hardware. The Intel stuff worked so well out of the box with Debian that I never bothered to get a discrete card. </p>
<p>The test for me has always been whether things fall apart when I finally get around to doing one of the things I do infrequently, like opening something with VNC, playing a Flash video, or when one of my kids cons me into letting them run Minecraft on my Linux box. The Intel hardware has worked fine in all these cases, and to my delight I have not had to screw around with anything to have it work. I suppose it's a little disappointed that my hard-won skills are no longer needed, but I don't think I miss it.</p>
<p>Anyway I can't comment on the Skylake and newer Intel support, but I like to stay a generation back anyway, and for my needs the Haswell CPUs feel blindingly fast and there are lots of good motherboard options. If Intel keeps up the good work I'll never buy another video card for my workstation.</p>
</div>2016-03-23T13:07:53ZBy Ewen McNeill on /blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertaintytag:CSpace:blog/linux/WaylandGraphicsUncertainty:24648550d63d66fad1d081e52f43274c2a6488d6Ewen McNeill<div class="wikitext"><p>As an observation, if you're buying a traditional "modular desktop" style machine, typically the graphics card is one of the more replaceable bits. Should you find you actually need to do so in, say 2-3 years time. Now that the "graphics card bus interface" seems to have settled on PCI Express for a non-trivial amount of time that should be pretty easy to do.</p>
<p>Disks, too, are of course pretty easily replaced. And while 3/6Gbps SATA might eventually not be flavour of the desktop, the most likely "not welded to the motherboard" alternatives seem to be some sort of PCI Express card.</p>
<p>But besides that, my impression is that Wayland and most "compositor manages all"/"3D engine for everything" desktop environments are likely work fine with pretty much any modern graphics card you can get. Even "integrated graphics" these days comes with a fair bit of 3D acceleration. I imagine anything capable of driving a 4K display would also be fine for Wayland for some years.</p>
<p>Personally my rule for replacing computer hardware has been the earlier of "I'm really concerned it's going to stop working" and "new things are at least twice as good in at least two dimensions that matter to me". If neither of those are true, maybe put it to one side and review replacement options again in 6-12 months.</p>
<p>FWIW, my home server is also "late 2011" vintage. I don't think I'd be replacing it except to get larger drives and/or faster-than-1.5Gbps SATA providing the hardware stays reliable. But my main "desktop" environment is a laptop, with SSD, lots of RAM, and a large (external) display. So YMMV.</p>
<p>Perhaps you just want a 4K display and a video card to drive it? :-)</p>
<p>Ewen</p>
<p>PS: There's <em>never</em> a perfect time to buy new computer tech. <em>Immediately</em> after new announcements is sometimes as good as any (particularly if you find the now-"last years' model" is still good enough for you and suddenly cheaper). But at best that only gets you one extra 6 month period of relaxing from the "should I have waited for the Next Big Thing" thoughts....</p>
</div>2016-03-23T06:19:55Z