Wandering Thoughts archives


Firefox's WebRender has mixed results for me on Linux

I wrote last week about how WebRender introduced bad jank in my Linux Firefox under some circumstances. However, it turns out that WebRender for me has mixed results even outside of that issue, as I reported on Twitter:

[...] In the bad news, the WebRender Firefox is clearly less responsive on CSS hovers on golangnews.com than the regular one.

(The specific issue I see is that if I wave the mouse up and down the page, the hover highlight can visibly lag behind the mouse position a bit. With WebRender off, this doesn't happen. The laggy performance shows up clearly in the Performance recordings in Web Developer tools, where I can see clear periods of very low FPS numbers and the overall average FPS is unimpressive.)

This is on my home machine, which has integrated Intel graphics (on a decent CPU) and a HiDPI screen. Today I was in the office and so using my office machine, which uses a Radeon RX 550 graphics card (because it's an AMD machine and good AMD CPUs don't have onboard GPUs) and dual non-HiDPI screens, and in very light testing my Firefox was using WebRender and didn't seem as clearly laggy on CSS hovers on golangnews.com as my home machine.

(This isn't quite a fair test because my office machine isn't running quite as recent a build of Nightly as my home machine is.)

At one level, this is unsurprising. On Linux, WebRender has long had block and allow lists that depended both on what sort of graphics you had and what screen resolution you were running at (this was in fact one of the confusing bits of WebRender on Linux, since Firefox didn't make it clear what about your setup was allowing or stopping WebRender). Presumably Mozilla has good reason for these lists, in that how well WebRender performed likely varies from environment to environment, or more exactly from some combination of GPU and resolution to other combinations.

At another level, this is disappointing. Firefox's WebRender is supposed to be a great performance improvement, delivering smooth 60 FPS animation (presumably including CSS effects), but in practice some combination of Firefox WebRender, the Linux X11 graphics stack, and my specific hardware results in clearly worse results than the old way. All of that effort on everyone's part has delivered an outcome that makes me turn off WebRender and plan to ignore it until I have no other choice. This is especially personally disappointing because WebRender is a necessary enabler for things like hardware accelerated video playback.

(I have to confess that I've held my nose and turned to Chrome for the single job of displaying a couple of sites where I really care about smooth video performance. I use Chrome Incognito windows for this, which at least limits some of the damage. I still hold my views on walking away from Chrome, but I'm a pragmatist.)

FirefoxWebRenderMixed written at 00:18:15; Add Comment


Firefox on Linux has not worked well with WebRender for me so far

A while back I wrote about my confusion over Firefox's hardware accelerated video on Linux; as part of that confusion, I attempted to turn on all of the preferences and options necessary to make hardware accelerated video work. Part of the requirements is (or was) forcing on WebRender (also), which is in large part about having the GPU do a lot more web page rendering than it does in Firefox today. Even after I seemed to not get hardware accelerated video, I left WebRender turned on in the Firefox instance I was using for this. Well, at least for a while. After a while I noticed that that Firefox instance seemed more prone to jank than it had been before when I did things like flip back to a Firefox window I hadn't been using for a while. Reverting WebRender back to the default setting of being off fixed the problem.

(I probably turned this off around the time of Firefox 81.)

Very recently, my personal build of Firefox Nightly started experiencing weird jank. Most of my Firefox windows are on my first (primary) fvwm virtual page and performed normally, but the moment I flipped to another virtual page (often to substitute for not having dual monitors right now) the Firefox window (or windows) that was on that new page would get extremely slow to respond. Today I determined that this was due to WebRender recently getting turned on by default in my Nightly environment; forcing WebRender off via gfx.webrender.force-disabled eliminated the problem. I cross-checked about:support output between my old normal Nightly build and the new Nightly build while it had the jank problem and verified that the only difference was WebRender (and hardware rendering) being turned on.

(This change is so recent it's not on the WebRender status page, which still says that WebRender is not enabled on large screens like mine on Intel GPUs. The change is bugzilla #1675768.)

Unfortunately this is not a simple problem. It's not an issue of excessive CPU or GPU usage, as far as I can tell, and it's not caused simply by having a Firefox window in an additional fvwm virtual page, because it doesn't happen in a test Firefox profile that's running the same binary. That it happens only if I move virtual pages makes it rather odd, because fvwm actually implements changing between virtual pages by moving all of the windows that aren't supposed to be there to off screen (and moving all of the other ones back on). So a Firefox window on the screen sees no difference in X11 protocol level window coordinates regardless of what virtual page fvwm is displaying (although offscreen Firefox windows will have different coordinates).

(I've also tried running Firefox with the environment variable 'INTEL_DEBUG=perf', from here, and there's no smoking gun. However, the change's bug mentions 'vsync' every so often and as far as I can see there's no way I can check for excessive waits for vsync, which could be one source of stalls.)

PS: Because I use fvwm, bug #1479135 - Black border around popups with non-compositing window manager usually makes it pretty obvious if WebRender is on in one of my Firefox instances (I use uBlock Origin's on the fly element picker a lot, which requires calling up its addon menu, which shows these black borders).

FirefoxWebRenderFailure written at 22:59:02; Add Comment

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